NEW GOPI KRISHNA FIRST TIME ON INTERNET

In the Fall of 1978, Pandit Gopi Krishna traveled from Kashmir, India to the United States and stayed at the Stamford, Connecticut home of Gene Kieffer, President of the Kundalini Research Foundation. Visitors traveled from all over the country to meet with the Pandit during his three trips to the United States between 1978 and 1983.

What follows is a transcription of a 1978 audio recording made by one visitor by the name of Tom Kay. The recording was set aside and discovered thirty-five years later.

The Pandit’s message is as urgent now as it was then, for science to confirm that the human brain is hardwired for Superconsciousness and thereby avert the overhanging threat of nuclear war resulting from over-reliance on materialistic ways of life. It is the Divine Plan for humankind, according to Gopi Krishna, that science is approaching the realm of religion, as the key moral principles of the world’s great spiritual teachings will be verified by science to be the evolutionary laws governing humanity’s rise to Superconsciousness.

During the question and answer session, an assistant helps clarify and relay questions from the room to the Pandit. Margaret Kobelt, a long-time supporter of the Pandit who accompanied him on his world travels, is present for this conversation and is heard at times helping the assistant to clarify and relay the questions.

Transcribed in 2013 by Karen Jones, ardent supporter of the Pandit’s mission since 1978.

The Pandit is already speaking as the recording begins.

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Gopi Krishna:

What is man here for? That will then explain what diet he should eat. If we do not know what for he is here, what is the purpose of this life, how can we decide our past judgment on his food or actions or sleep or waking? First we should know, if he’s an animal, then the question is different. If he’s an angel, then the question is different. If he, as an animal, is now proceeding towards an angelic condition, then the question is different. So before discussing superfluities, it is best first to discuss the fundamentals.

I will explain this. We take to meditation, why? I would like to know an answer to this question. You see, there is so much thirst for meditation all over India, Europe, America; thousands, hundreds of thousands of people like to meditate. Why? This will solve, also answer, your question. They are all interrelated. Why do we want to meditate? Why do we want to practice Yoga or Zen or any other metaphysical discipline? I would like to have an answer to that. (sounds of laughter in the room)

I do not take any disciples. I do not preach any philosophy. I do not preach any sect, because I believe that the human race has reached a state of progress where it should know what is the purpose of its being and where it stands. Every one of us has a childhood, then adolescence, then adulthood, then prime, and then age and last of all, death. But are we convinced that the soul is immortal, that there is a God? That we have to do something to make our other life in the other world easier for us? Are we convinced about these things? If we are not convinced, then the first thing is to analyze where we stand. Our basic approach to the problems of life should be to analyze our own position.

In India there are said to be two basic things which are necessary for every man and woman to understand oneself, to be aware of oneself.  One is vivek, the other is viraja. Vivek means to know your duties as a human being, to know yourself, to know what we are here for, to distinguish between what is false and what is true. That is known as vivek. And viraja means if you are convinced by analysis that a human being is not an animal but something more – that eating, dressing, sleeping, drinking is not the only reason for his life, he has some other goal to reach – then comes the second step of viraja, to be not too much drowned in this world.

We are compounds of two things, the flesh and ourselves, the knower and our body. All our life we try to satisfy our physical needs, to care for our body and our flesh, but the other partner of our life, of our mind, often remains neglected. That is why I asked this question, what is the purpose of meditation? What is the purpose of Yoga? There are many people who are recommending different types of meditation, different types of Yoga. This has been the practice in India for the last thousands of years. They have disciples, they have people who follow them.

But the first question that has to be asked of a teacher, what is the benefit of this meditation? There can be one benefit, it can give you a peace of mind.  Another benefit can be, it can give you some efficiency. But that is just like other things, temporal things which perish. Yoga is in actual fact meant to make us immortal, and this is the aim of all religions: to lead us to the Kingdom of God, to make him immortal. And we can become immortal in this life, to this I can attest solemnly before God.

It is a matter of great sorrow for me that Yoga has not been understood in the West, and the versions that are being given are often not correct. Yoga is a compound word derived from the root yuj. Yuj means to join, to combine. It means to combine all your energies to gain union with the Divine Intelligence which works behind the Universe. That is the real meaning of the term Yoga. And in India, Yoga has been used from Vedic times to demonstrate the truth of religion.

In other countries of the world there is a creed, a religion. We have here Christianity, in the Near East we have Islam, in India, China and Japan we have Buddhism. There are certain articles of faith in each religion and you have to believe them. You have to believe that the soul is immortal, that there is a God. No proof is given. Yoga is meant to give proof to the principles, to the fundamental concepts of religion.

In the usual course you have to accept the faith secondhand, from the founder or from the church, from the priests, from the Popes. But actually, unless everyone experiences the truth of religion, one cannot be convinced a hundred percent. So Yoga is meant to bring conviction about the truths of religion to everyone. This is the primary aim of Yoga.         

Unfortunately, the 20^th century and even the 19^th have been almost barren of spiritual geniuses. There have been a few, very few, but on the whole it has been barren. The materialistic tendencies of the world, the division of humankind into believers and non-believers, the nuclear bombs, the explosive state of humankind, are all due to this fact – that during the last two centuries, there has been a dearth of spiritual geniuses on the Earth.

Yoga or spiritual science is not so cheap and so easy as it is being given out in modern times. It is the basic food which our soul needs. Unless there is a target to human life, unless we have an ideal before us, there will be the same confusion as we are seeing in these days.  The human mind needs an anchor to keep it firm. Otherwise the storms of passion and desire, they sweep it away, and all the life it is struggling to find its bearing without success.

That is the purpose of Yoga, to give direction to life, to put the target before you. And that target is provided by some of the greatest human beings born on Earth, by human beings like Buddha, by Christ, by Mohammed, by Shankaracharya, by Socrates.  If we had two of them, like Guru Nanak recently in the 15 and 16^th centuries, if we had two or three of them, the world would not have such a condition.

In spite of all the wealth, all the inventions of science, all the abundance and all the facilities and amenities which were never in the past, the human mind is restless, because there is a subconscious urge in us to know ourselves. And there is no answer either in science or in philosophy that would satisfy our mind. It can only be satisfied when we know ourselves, when the reality becomes known.

I would discuss this point in another way. All our five senses show us the material world. Formerly we had no knowledge of electromagnetic waves or electric currents or electronic waves. Our eyes could not see them, our ears could not hear them. But now by certain instruments we are able to detect that around us there is a tremendous world of activity going on. There are waves and currents which can send our message from America to Japan in a few moments, which can circulate the Earth in a few moments. We know now there are energies and forces which we never could see.

And let me tell you that side by side with these forces and energies, which we have only now begun to see, there is everywhere, both in us and out of us, an energy which we call mind. This mind is not the product of your body. It is not the product of your brain. This energy is using your mind and body in the same way as the waves from a television station use a television apparatus. There are differences, which will take a long time to explain, but for an analogy this is sufficient.

We are not the body, we are not the brain. This stupendous energy creates out of earth the flower and the body and the lion and the tiger and the elephant and everything else. This is a fundamental concept known and verified in India at least fifteen hundred years before the birth of Christ. It is an energy. What science is not able to see or to acknowledge is this energy, which has been known as prana. It was known to Egyptians. It was known in the Middle East.  It is known to alchemists and occultists in Europe, but it is not known to science. Science has no instruments to detect it.

Now I will give you an example. I see all of you sitting before me.  Each one of you is a universe. Each one of you has a world of his own. Each one of you sees all the tents assembled here. Each one of you hears my voice and knows that I am speaking, sees me, I see you.  Now what is this thing which sees and is aware in us?  Can we see it, can we hear it, can I see this Atman, this mind, this consciousness in you? No instrument of science can detect it.  We only know it by inference. We know this man is alive and his mind is working, and when that man falls dead we know the mind is nowhere there and the man is dead. But are we able to know this animating principle? No scientist has been able to, it has never been isolated, it can never be isolated.

This energy, this consciousness, this awareness and this mind which makes us alive, which hears, thinks, talks, is a universe in itself. These thoughts, these dreams, all this imagination, it is not just nothing.  It is an energy, and an immortal eternal energy. It is the Illuminated, the Mystics, the Awakened, the Yogis who come in contact with this energy.  I hope you follow me.  It is the energy that is in you.  It is eternal. You see [inaudible].  I see Life everywhere here in this room, around me.  It is Intelligence. 

Only, an eye has to be opened, another eye has to be opened, which in India has been called the Third Eye. There has to be a change in the brain, for which Yoga is practiced.  That is known as the Eye of Shiva, the Third Eye, and it is said to be centered here, between the eyebrows, because that has a very physiological background. Because the two nerves which create the change in the brain enter the brain at this point, one coming from the right going to the left side, and that coming from the left side going to the right side. This is a long subject of the physiology of Yoga which we will not discuss at this time. But suffice it to say that humankind is but the product of an energy which is spread throughout the Universe, but which you cannot see by any means except through the opening of another sense in your brain.

You must have heard of clairvoyance. You must have heard of mediums. You must have heard of telepathy. All of them, by some awakening in the brain, by some change in the brain, come in contact with this energy. They are able to read your thoughts, they sit in front of you and then they can read your thoughts. They can read the thoughts of others at a distance, they can look into the past, they can look into other worlds, other places. For instance, they are sitting here and what they call as clairvoyance or astral projection, they are able to tell you that this thing is happening. Sometimes they are wrong, but sometimes they are right. How can it be possible unless there is a communicating energy? That energy is prana.

So the aim of Yoga is to open this channel of perception. To lift the veil from the eyes, as is said in the religious scriptures. To open the doors of perception and to lead to the inner kingdom which Christ has called the Kingdom of Heaven.  It is simple, only it is not explained. There is an energy, what we call life energy, pervading the whole Universe, pervading everywhere, even in atoms, this room, in the sea, in the forest, everywhere, which is the cause of life. This energy, science has not been able to detect or to determine so far. We are now suggesting experiments on how this can be done, and already some groups have been formed to investigate.

It is this energy which Yoga is designed to know. Therefore, in every book on Yoga you will find from the very beginning, descriptions and directions about prana. Prana is life energy. It is known by different names all over the Earth. This prana, or life energy, is in you, acting as you. In me, it is acting as myself. Our physiological frame, our flesh, our blood and our body determine our behavior and our personality. But all are one. All Life is one. The Universe is Life. It is for this reason that I asked the question about meditation. 

       The real aim of meditation, of Yoga, of spiritual disciplines, or of religion, is to open the supersensory channel in the brain. All of us know that according to modern scientists, we use only a fraction of the brain. Some place the limit at six or seven percent, and some at ten percent. Ninety percent of our brain remains inactive. And modern science also has not yet much knowledge about the brain. It is only now that they’ve started to discover what was known from ancient times, that there are two lobes. One of the lobes deals with aesthetics, feeling, the other deals with reason, language and the like. These are now things coming to light but much is not known about the brain.

There is a region in the brain which Yoga rouses to activity, and this region is known as Brahmarendra to the Indian adepts. When the Brahmarendra is opened, then for the first time the prana, the World of Life, is opened to our view. The moment the World of Life is open you are no more the same person. Then the treasures of the earth seem to be insignificant. Then you know what you are. Then alone you are totally rid from the fear of death. It is not that you now believe that you will not die, not at all. You see yourself as eternal and immortal. This is the aim of Yoga.

It is this knowledge that I am trying to bring to humankind, supported by experiments done in laboratories, and this is the only answer to the problems of our day. This is the only science that can unify humankind, that can bring unity between all the religions, and that can mitigate the terror and horror of our time – this science alone. It has to show to us that we are not animals, that we have a potentiality in us to become a god.

You must have heard from Yogis or from people who are interested in Indian tradition, there is a term, SatChitAnanda, which is used to designate the condition of one in whom this channel has opened. Sat means reality, Chit means consciousness, Ananda means happiness – three things. This means that for the first time he is able to perceive the reality behind the Universe. This reality is not of the nature of matter, it is of the nature of Intelligence. He sees the whole Universe alive, one all-knowing, all-acting, all-powerful, all- seeing Intelligence, all over the Universe. This is the reason why God is said to be Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent. It is the men of vision who have said it, those who had this vision. It has been very rare, but it has been there.

       The reason why in religion, everywhere, God is said to be, in Islam, in Christianity, in Hinduism, God is said to be Omnipotent, Omnipresent, Omniscient, is because this energy which you see, this energy of life, it is of this kind. It is of this nature, and man, who has the chance to reach this perception, is lofted, carried to another world of life where this world seems to be a dream. So this is the goal of human life. The goal of our life is not to build rockets to reach Mars or to raise skyscrapers 200 stories high. The Egyptians raised their pyramids 480 feet high.  They are there now, desolate.

        The aim of human life, for every person, is to know oneself. And this knowledge is so precious, so happiness-yielding, so wonderful, that no temptation of the earth, neither money nor kingship nor power nor property can compare with it. This is the aim of religion. This is the aim of Yoga. This is the real aim of meditation – to open the brain to the intelligent energy encompassing the Universe. Then alone one knows oneself.

Just as a man in a state of sleep has dreams and sometimes nightmares, horrible dreams, and then suddenly he wakes up and says, “Oh God, it was all a dream, I am happy.” This happens to many people. Terrible dreams, they occur during the night, a lion is coming or something else is happening and then the man suddenly awakes. Exactly with the success in Yoga, the man who gains this vision awakens from this world into another life. You then need not tell him he is immortal. He sees he is immortal. He sees he is above everything of the earth. That is the crowning experience of human life.

            Now, what life is to be led, what food is to be taken, what exercises are to be done, what beliefs are to be held, that is a separate matter. Nothing is to be given up. We have to have the same life we are leading, only – what every great spiritual luminary has said – in a moderate way. We have not to become totally lost and drowned in the world, because then no energy is left to reach the Heaven. Then we are with the earth, that is all. Moderation in life, and a truthful, compassionate heart – they are the two important virtues that can lead to Higher Consciousness, to the knowledge of this Power, to the knowledge of this Reality, of this Intelligence surrounding the Universe.

            It is people who have this possibility, they see the future, they become the prophets, what they say comes true. They see the past, they have other gifts. And the class below them you all know is the class of the genius. Every great intellectual and every great genius has openly said that what he was writing came from some other source. Musicians, like Mozart, Mozart has admitted, he has written it, that the whole composition came to him in one flash and then he put it down on paper. Similarly, great poets, they get contact with this source about which I am telling you. In them, the center is half open, not fully open. In the spiritual luminaries, the center is fully open. Then they see themselves, that they are one with creation, one with this Intelligence – eternal – and that this life that they see is like a dream.

            You can now gladly ask me any questions that you like. (pauses, as yet no one comes forward)

            My aim is to put this whole concept – I have no axes to grind, nothing, my desires are satisfied – but I would like to share this knowledge with everyone and therefore I am putting the whole thing without any unnecessary words which create confusion. It is simple, that there is an energy in addition to the energies known to science, which is intelligent energy and that our bodies are the products of that energy, what we call as life energy.

Science has also started to make now certain investigations about it, but still it is much behind. And we have possibilities in the brain to create a new channel of perception which can see this, feel this, sense this energy and become one with it. And that has been the aim of all religions, to draw attention of humankind, their followers, that there is a spiritual order, that there is a God, and that that Kingdom is in you and that with a righteous life you can reach that Kingdom, and also be one with that God.

            I have put it in a very clear language. Instead of going round and round, I have put it in a few words to give you an idea of what Yoga is meant to achieve. And now you can ask me questions as you like.

Question: Some of us do meditate on the chakras and think in terms of the kundalini. Have you any word of advice or encouragement, that we breathe in one chakra and out another, and what is fine, and the method of meditation? I’ve been doing it for a couple of years but no fireworks ever go off. Nothing really startling ever happens. Now this is good, I guess; after reading your book, I’m thankful for this.

Gopi Krishna: Now I will answer this question. Humanity has evolved and is still evolving. And in the matter of awakening of this power, one of the most important things to remember is that the heredity must be favorable. You see, talent goes by heredity, talent goes by genes. Genius goes by genes. This means that the mechanism which we call kundalini and which can bestow spiritual illumination also goes by genes, generally, though exercises, practices, done in a very perseverating way, can help.

But there is the question of heredity also. And in India, this is translated, interpreted, by karma. You will see the connection. In India they say, now your karma must be mature, which means your heredity must be right, you must have inherited something. And I will add another thing. This will be the most powerful factor in future, when this research is completed: for parents to live right lives, to give birth to right children. This would be the incentive.

Yes?

Question: When you say that living a righteous life is the most, you imply that that’s the most important practice to open this up, does that mean that one should not also do more formal practice, meditation, or whatever your other practice is?

Gopi Krishna: You see, the practices prescribed in the ancient books were meant for an agrarian society, in a society in which these tensions and pressures and haste and hurry and [inaudible] did not exist. Therefore, excessive practice while living this life is not indicated. It can go wrong. The whole system is involved in the awakening, the whole system, every nerve, every organ, because the brain has to be changed. You can’t effect changes in the brain in just a moment. So one has to be very careful how much practice one should do, what practice one should do and what kind of life one should have. Do you follow me?

You can understand, I will give you a simple analogy. In order to be a PhD, in science, or in medicine, you have to attend college, and school, for twenty years, to be there on time, to keep the notes, and to keep your health also good so that you are not ill. Then only after twenty years, you become a PhD. Imagine now, what effort, what care and what time it would take to reach a state where the whole normal perception is transcended, where a person is transformed into a new personality.

It is a very – the reason why in India such rigid disciplines have been enjoined and why repeatedly it is said that you have to abide by the directions of the guru, and that lives are needed to reach this perfection, is because of the great change that is involved, the change in the brain.

I lived by a miracle. I couldn’t have [inaudible]. Even now I live by a miracle. My life just hangs on a thread. But the thread is carrying on. (sounds of laughter in the room)

Question: Would you speak to us about the Mother?

Gopi Krishna: About the . . .?

Questioner: About the Mother, the form of the Mother.

Gopi Krishna: The ?

Assistant: The Mother Goddess.

Margaret Kobelt: The female of creation, the mother of creation.

Gopi Krishna: This energy, prana, is the Mother. You see, there are two principles in the human body, according to the ancient traditions. We will now see what the scientific experiments will reveal to us, because I would not take anything as accepted, except that which has come in my own experience.

Our consciousness is in the brain, this the Indian savants call Shiva, a spark of Shiva, a spark of Brahman. And then in addition, we have the life energy, which is also a part of it but it is in the form of energy, which brings us to birth, which maintains us, which supports us, and then which finally also destroys us at the end. This is known as Shakti. Do you follow me?

Now Shakti is the Mother, and Shiva is the Father, I mean, the Father of the Universe, though the two are one. Shiva in his Absolute Form is known as woman and man both: Ardhanarishvara – nari means woman – half woman and half man. That is, the Universal Principle, the Creator, has both sides, the female and the male. In China, they call them yin and yang.

Now, in our organism, in our body, it is polarized into consciousness pure and the energy which supports the body and that consciousness. This is known as Shiva and Shakti. When kundalini rises from the base of the spine, that means Shakti. The aim is to meet this Shiva, this flame of consciousness, and to expand it, to release it from the prison of the body. Do you follow me?

When the kundalini has arisen, and the two meet here, there is terrific happiness, bliss, that is known as Ananda. And at that point when the meeting occurs, the Third Eye opens, the soul is released from the bondage and perceives the world as itself, as Shiva. That is the goal of Yoga.

Yes?

Question: What is the relationship between prana and love?

Gopi Krishna:  Prana is the parent, the architect of all our emotions and intellect. Prana is the food, the fuel by which we think, by which we feel. There is nothing apart from prana. Love is not something distant from prana. It is prana that creates love, it is prana that creates hate, but to reach the highest state, hate is a deterrent, a blockage, and love is the means to reach that. Love is not something separate, a “new thing” in the universe. There are two realities, as I said. One is consciousness; the second is its power – Intelligence, and its power.

I will explain it in this way. With our intelligence, we have been able to transform the Earth. We have built airplanes, we have built rockets, we have built ships, we have built television, we are building now computers, wonderful computers, all by our intellect. This is one spark from the Divine Fire, one drop from the Ocean. Now, if this one drop from the Ocean has been able to create so much on Earth, imagine what the whole Ocean can do. The Ocean has created this Universe.

But this creation has been by this power, this energy, just as we have also power. We can move our eyes, we can move our legs, we can think, this is our power. We are not only intelligence, inactive intelligence, but we are active also. We have strength, power, we run, rush, go up and down, write – this is energy. Similarly, the Creator has energy. Of course, it is an Ocean of energy. That energy is known as Shakti. And that is known as prana. This Universe is the creation of this prana. Shiva is the Creator, but the energy that has created it is prana.

So prana is the source of all of our intelligence, emotions and feelings. Prana is love. Prana is intelligence. Prana is hate. Prana is everything. In fact, it is the building block of our personality. Do you follow me here? Love as an emotion, as a feeling of our heart, comes also from this eternal, universal prana. Only now we have to see what should more regulate our life – love or hate, or malice or charity or compassion – that is for us to see.

If the man’s evolution is to be towards a monster, then the dark traits will come first. If his evolution is to be towards an angel, then the beautiful traits will come first. It rests with him what to do. Some of the old civilizations, as for instance, Atlantis, might have chosen something malicious, something magical. The civilization was destroyed.

So prana is the architect of love and fate and everything. In that sense, love is prana and prana is love.

Yes, please?

Question: Do you see an evolution of man with increased sensitivity and ability to have contact with Shiva and greater utilization of it?

Assistant: ?

Questioner: Is there a possibility for man to have a greater sensitivity to Shiva in terms of contact with it and its greater use?

Assistant: When man evolves, will he have a greater use with Shiva?

Questioner: Will man become more sensitive to God the Father for the betterment of himself and the world?

Assistant: Can man be more sensitive to Shiva energy as he is evolving?

Gopi Krishna: Yes, in the natural course also. You see, humanity is evolving towards another species. All your science is not an end, it is a means to an end, and that is a new species on the Earth. That will not be someone foreign, it will be born out of us. And that species will slowly have this channel, this eye opened. Do you follow me here?

Now, man can never be the Creator of the Universe. That would be too egoistic. How can he be, there are four billion human beings on the Earth [at this time]. Do you think I should become Shiva and leave all of them there, to struggle? That is an egotistical conception. But, he can know, he can feel, he can sense, he can see that one Infinite Intelligence is the Source of All. And that he belongs to the same Intelligence.

It is a tremendous experience, you cannot even imagine it. Just to feel that you are one with the Eternal Light of the Universe, you are one with the Creator, is such a tremendous experience, that nothing of this earth can compare to it. When the urge comes to man to give up this body and to live there forever, that is Shiva, we call it in India, Shiva Consciousness – that is, consciousness of Oneness with the Absolute. Not that he becomes the Absolute, but one with it, a drop of an Ocean but tasting the whole Ocean.

Question: How does one learn to forget oneself?

Gopi Krishna: I have some difficulty understanding the American accent.

Assistant: How does one forget oneself?

Margaret Kobelt: How does one learn to forget oneself?

Gopi Krishna: What happens to us in sleep? Do we remember that we had gone to bed when we are dreaming?

Questioner: Sometimes. (laughing)

Gopi Krishna: Very rarely. (laughing) If you remembered, then it would not be a dream; you would then say “I am dreaming, there is nothing in it.” But we are not, we do not 

[Transcriber’s note: The recording skips a section here.]

 

Gopi Krishna: . . .from metals to vegetation, vegetation to worms, worms to animals, animals to then anthropoids, anthropoids then to man, and man to superman – it is a plan. It is a plan for the Earth, but we do not know what other worlds of life there are. There might be other worlds of life. Even in those planets which we think are lifeless, where the temperature is too hot, there might be forms of life which are invisible to us.

The world is a magic world of maya. It is not only our mind and matter. There are other beings, of which sometimes the sensitive people can see. Here on the Earth, in our land, there might be other creatures too, composed of a different type of matter which is imperceptible to us. But all the creations [inaudible] prana. This is the reason why the Indian savants have called it maya, illusion, the illusion power, the magic power which can create anything.

Now physicists also are coming to the same view, that there can be other planes of creation, other [inaudible] especially in these black holes. You might have read some of it. These black holes are now said to be apertures, channels to other universes, about which we can have no conception, with other time and space about which we know nothing. So science also is slowly coming to the realm of religion. It is the plan, it is His Will; we cannot question it. If we question it, we defeat ourselves.

Question: If we want to, can we hope to reach the state of enlightenment in this lifetime?

Gopi Krishna: In this life, here, in this life. And this fact is of – I have one word to say – is of tremendous importance for humankind at this moment. It is the only thing – the confirmation of this fact, that there is a supersensory area in the brain and that when this area opens, the World of Life can be observed by a person, and that man is not an animal but exists because of a Cosmic Intelligence that surrounds the Earth and the Universe – this is the most important knowledge at the present moment, as a counterblast to the nuclear missile.

There is no other weapon than this science, this knowledge, to spread this knowledge, to have it confirmed by science, to present it in a different way to show that humankind is destined for something, and that natural forces are watching her actions. That is the most important message we can give the world. Enlightenment is possible, we are trying to have an experiment of that kind, where we will give certain disciplines to at least a hundred people, after just preliminary observation, for years, to have this activity started and then observe. It is a desperate need of our day to show that man is a Divine being, that he has a goal in front, that he has not come just to waste his life on material things.

Question: Can this be done through meditation?

Gopi Krishna: Yes. Yoga, but in an intensive way, and that person has to live a certain life, that man or woman has to live a disciplined life and must have the means to live that life [inaudible]. These personal things one can ask me even afterwards. But I would not give generally any formula because no formula is possible. Every individual has to work his salvation by himself, and that means a lot. It cannot be like a drill. This has to be kept in the mind always by those.

When there is a material object, we can force it. For instance, we want to have some machinery installed here. We can do it in two days, three days, ten days or a year. Or we want to convert a place into a beautiful paradise; we can at once start to work and do it. But when we say we want to realize Shiva, or God, our will means nothing. The permission must come from within. It must come from within.

We can but try, the permission has to come from within. When we wish to meet the President of America, we have to ask so many people and to wait for such a time. You can imagine then what it means to meet the President of the Universe. (sounds of laughter in the room)

Assistant: Pandit, do you have time for one more question?

Gopi Krishna: Yes.

Question: How do you feel about spirituality here in the United States, and where is it going, in your opinion?

Gopi Krishna: Well, I think the conditions all over the world are almost the same. It is not that the United States [inaudible], but since the Americans are a sort of a new race, because they came to a continent with virgin soil, I feel there is greater possibility for a spiritual revival in the States than anywhere else, only if the right direction is taken.

Question: What are the chances?

Gopi Krishna: It depends on you! (sounds of laughter in the room) Every one of us. If we really, and this I am saying in all sincerity, if we really wish to serve God, to reach Illumination, then our first task would be to exercise our intellect: in which way can I serve the Lord best? For my own salvation or the salvation of the world? Of a suffering world. Of a threatened world. What would be the answer? What would be the right answer?

In the salvation of a threatened world. Therefore our primary duty ought to be to sacrifice our own comfort, even our own salvation, to the demand of the time, to wake up and help others to wake up. That is the [inaudible]. Therefore, it depends on you, as much as on anyone else, on every individual, I mean.

Yes?

Question: Sometimes, there’s an opening, a great love of God in myself and my fellow man, other times there’s dryness, and it varies. How do you overcome this resistence?

Assistant: Why is it sometimes we feel overwhelming love and other times not so much, and how to overcome this?

Gopi Krishna: How do talented people have productive moods and at other times sterile moods? We know of this fact. Because at the times when you feel an overwhelming desire or overwhelming love, the prana is pure. At other times when you feel a little bit [inaudible], the prana is [inaudible].

Question: I have experienced this energy, this divine energy as very small flashes, in a table, in a flower, not just in man. I would feel part of you and everyone. You say that only man can experience this but I feel the flower is in touch with that, and also the table. In an electron microscope, this is identical to this.

Assistant: Are you saying that you feel the same type of love back from the table and the flower, or you feel that towards it? Could you clarify that?

Questioner: That the energy is in everything, not just man opening to this divine energy.

Assistant: He feels that there is energy in everything in the Universe – wood, beautiful flowers, just everything.

Gopi Krishna: Yes, only it has different spectrums. In that matter, it has one spectrum, in a flower it has one spectrum, in humankind it has another. And even in humankind also, in different people, it has different spectrums. Do you follow me?

Questioner: Is it possible for us to know those different spectrums directly?

Gopi Krishna: Yes.

Question: I have asked this question consistently for many years and I’m still not sure exactly how to phrase it. It’s about the necessity for suffering, and it also deals with expansion. I’ve experienced some and what it was was a view of some interminable hell. I’ve been told that there’s only one energy. When I asked about a friend of mine who lost her entire family, I asked what is the purpose of such suffering? I was told she was like a heroic mountain climber who would see that there was an illusion of tragedy. But I still have never been satisfied with the notion of the necessity of suffering or the illusion of suffering. So I don’t even know how to ask it, but it is the Age of Kali Yuga. I just cannot see the necessity of suffering.

Assistant: What is the necessity of suffering to achieve higher consciousness?

Gopi Krishna: Suffering diminishes the ego. The greatest danger to spiritual illumination is the ego. Even in very pious people. Even sometimes in saints. The ego is there, “I”, and suffering humbles a person, chastens the person.

Questioner: Compassion humbles a person also?

Gopi Krishna: Yes. You see, that is correct but in extreme form, suffering can have the very reverse effect. It should be like a dose of medicine, not an overdose. Do you follow me?

Questioner: Yes, but then there is some room for miscarriage of justice in the universe, if there is such a thing as an overdose.

Assistant: There is such a thing as too much suffering. Is that fair, when a person suffers too much?

Gopi Krishna: You see, I will tell you what I mean. For instance, in India, you have poverty, terrible poverty, and millions – and that poverty and the suffering caused by that poverty does not even allow them to live a normal life. Where it is not possible to live a normal life, for all the years from the birth to death, the person becomes an animal.

Suffering, but not too much. Suffering is good. In fact, even self-imposed suffering is good, to deny yourself for some time. [inaudible] that brings down the ego. That is why the mystics and the saints in the past took to self-denial, self-abnegation, even sometimes self-mortification – it humbled them, it diminished the ego. But too much, when it is excessive, then it can have morbid effects, not healthy, but morbid effects.

Yes?

Questioner: When the saint mortifies his flesh, it’s volitional, it’s voluntary. The person in India you describe, is that also somehow voluntary?

Assistant: I can’t grasp what you’re saying.

Questioner: I’m saying there’s some inequity with the person in India suffering, that he’s being reduced to an animal state. Is he supposed to just continue to slide down that hole, is that also karma?

Assistant: How do you get out of over-suffering?

Gopi Krishna: You see, there can be many ways. One’s own efforts can succeed. There is not one formula. Friends can help. There can be a grace, a miracle. You can’t have one formula. It is better to be patient, to be receptive, to seek for help. That mind that acts in suffering also patiently, tolerantly, it is possible that in such a case, help may come from unexpected quarters, almost miraculously, and the suffering will then end.

Question: Can you suggest ways I might obtain permission from the Creator to be given enlightenment in this lifetime?

Assistant: How can one get permission from the Divine Intelligence for enlightenment in this lifetime?

Gopi Krishna: When one is eager for it, it means the permission has already been granted. (sounds of laughing and clapping in the room)

Assistant: Okay, we’ll finish up with this. Thank you very much.

Other voices: Thank you.